 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Hy-Dex
Date: 2024-03-24 05:00
I have a Bb and A set each of Yamaha CSVR and SEVR clarinets. The CSVR set and the SEVR Bb have good intonation. However, low E and low F on the SEVR "A" clarinet are very flat. I have tried the SEVR Bb bell on the SEVR "A" clarinet and it does nothing to raise the pitch whatsoever.
I do not want to invest the time, trouble, or money to add a low-F correction mechanism to the SEVR "A" clarinet in question. What other options might be available to me?
I understand that the Uebel Superior model clarinet has a hole on the bell to help raise the pitch of low E and low F. Is drilling a hole on my SEVR "A" clarinet bell a viable option? (Note: I would not attempt to do this myself. I would consult a knowledgeable and experienced repair technician, such as a regional master.) And if so, how would one determine the accurate size and location of the hole in terms of maximum effectiveness and minimum unintended consequences?
Thank you for any information about tried and tested corrective strategies.
Hy-Dex
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Author: m1964
Date: 2024-03-24 08:44
I think your only reliable option is to get a clarinet with a factory correction key(s).
Uebel probably/very likely has different bore design - its sound is different from Yamaha. Drilling a hole in the bell of your Yamaha may or may not produce the result you want, but it will somewhat diminish the resale value of your clarinet.
Still, if you want to experiment, if the hole is drilled but does not produce the result you want, it can be plugged with a piece of black wood and made almost invisible.
Where are you located? A good repair tech maybe able to help you, after seeing your clarinet "in person".
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Author: Jarmo Hyvakko
Date: 2024-03-24 15:10
The hole in the bell effects mostly on low e and middle b, not so much f/c. Try playing the low f by tightening the embouchure, moving your chin backwards and voicing the sound towards "eee". With those repairs i have even managed to get a decent minor third with the low f.
Flat low f is a major problem with most french system clarinets, especially A. The correction key is one solution, but it has it's own problems. A thumb key is clumsy and the buffet solution to put an extra key beside right hand f/C might be challenging to build afterwards.
Jarmo Hyvakko, Principal Clarinet, Tampere Philharmonic, Finland
Post Edited (2024-03-24 15:17)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-03-24 15:13
I actually executed drilling a hole on an A clarinet that was owned by my high school.........the band director made me buy a new bell. It may have helped slightly but I do recall others telling me that the hole I drilled probably should have been higher to be more affective (it was about where the Uebel hole is).
However, I'd say if you actually get a hole to successfully raise your low E to the point where you are happy, the middle line B will most assuredly will be way too high.
I vote for the expense and time of the custom mechanism (on the bell!)
................Paul Aviles
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-03-24 16:45
Some European players put the hole through the bell tenon- this has more influence on low F, but also the advantage that you can CLOSE the hole by rotating the bell on the joint. On my facebook friends list you will find Kenny Keppel, I seem to recall he had this done so you can ask him about the size/placement of the hole.
It IS possible to retro fit a "tosca like" low F tuning key. The biggest problem is that you extend the rod from the F/C+G#/D# key- getting a longer rod and putting an extra post in isn't difficult, but the rod/key for the F correction key must bridge the low F#/C# key arm... best way to do that is carve out a hole in the key arm...
Good luck!
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Author: Hy-Dex
Date: 2024-03-24 20:05
Thanks to all. I will further investigate all options, make an educated decision, and proceed when ready.
Permit me to stipulate that I know that low E and low F are usually flat to some degree on most clarinets. However, I have several other professional model wooden clarinets that do not have these problems. Concerning my LeBlanc clarinets, low E is not flat and low F is only very slightly flat.
In contrast, the low E and low F on my Yamaha SEVR "A" clarinet are very flat. Correction: low E is 10 cents flat and low F is 12-15 cents flat. With embouchure/voicing changes, I can raise the low E to about 5 cents flat and the low F to about 9 cents flat, which is still noticeably low. The instrument has a lovely, sweet tone and plays well in tune otherwise. Thus, my quest to salvage it rather than dispense with it.
Hy-Dex
Post Edited (2024-03-28 03:21)
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-03-24 21:33
I think the Yamaha shop in NY can do a completely separate pad that remains closed with a flat spring. Then you open with an added thumb trigger (this is the method used on German horns as well).
...............Paul Aviles
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2024-03-25 01:29
You can buy a separate bell from China and experiment with it
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-03-26 00:57
Attachment: Low e-f correction.jpg (513k)
I'm aware that the OP isn't considering a low e/f-mechanism, but since such has been discussed here I would like to add that Buffet's version is just a "half solution", especially considering the low F. The hole for a low F vent rising it sufficiently must be placed higher than the hole for the low E pad cup (where the low F emanates, and as in the attached picture), not lower as on Buffets.
The obvious reason for such a half solution is that Buffet is saving on a mechanism closing the low F vent while low E is played, which isn't needed with that lower placement. It's actually annoying me at bit that Buffet isn't offering a "full" solution, not even on their highest end models (maybe though as a special order, but with all the trouble involved with such, when it comes to Buffet).
Even if a half way raised low F makes less to "lip up", tone quality is suffering from any major adjustments that way. Also, in a bit faster passages you don't have the time for lip adjustments, but the flat note will still "shine through".
As already stated, a hole in the bell will rise the low E, but have very little effect on the low F.
Some of the German clarinet makers are offering retrofitted "full solution" low E/F correction mechanisms also for Boehm clarinets (operated by a thumb key).
Post Edited (2024-03-26 01:14)
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Author: Micke Isotalo ★2017
Date: 2024-03-27 01:09
Attachment: Yamaha RB bells.jpg (416k)
Attachment: Bell, hole distance.jpg (485k)
I just realized that my retired Yamaha Reform Boehm set (the 856/846 model) has tuning holes on their bells.
The A-bell in the foreground in the first attached picture has the original hole (diameter 6.67mm, distance from the top of the bell 33.11mm - see how that measurement was taken in the second picture), and on the Bb-bell in the background I've enlarged the original hole to about 11.11mm (since both the low E and middle B were flat, with my setup at the time), 28.86mm from the top.
Low F on the A-clarinet with the original, small hole in the bell is around 26 cents flat, and with the hole covered by tape around 28 cents flat. Thus the impact of the hole on the low F is only about 2 cents.
The bells are marked "A" and "B", so they are probably not meant to be interchangeable, but anyway I tried also the Bb-bell with the enlarged hole on the A-clarinet. Low F with the hole open was about 25-26 cents flat, while about 28-29 cents flat with it covered (thus pretty much the same as with the A-bell).
The B-flat with its bell is less flat, about 12-13 cents on both low E and F, but the one of prime interest in this thread is surely the A.
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Author: donald
Date: 2024-03-27 16:27
Hey Stacy it's worth noting that the bore diameter at the bell tenon will make a significant effect on tuning of the F/C E/B (in addition to changing the resistance and tonal density of the clarinet). Rather than a hole, a bell with a slightly larger bore at the tenon will sharpen F/E.
I'm pretty sure it was Dan Paproki who (many years back) told me how the bell tones of his A clarinet had been fine tuned by reaming the top bore of the bell- this was on an R13 that had the "choke" at the bell. I'm not sure if the "choke" (I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about) is used on any of the newer Yamaha designs...
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Author: JTJC
Date: 2024-03-27 17:09
My Patricola C clarinet has what Donald describes in the bell interior. It also has a hole in the bell, which is twice as large on the inside as on the outside. The bottom E and F are spot on.
Those with 3D printers you could try incorporating these ideas into a copy of their existing bell.
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Author: Hy-Dex
Date: 2024-03-28 03:33
Update:
Someone had asked where I am located. The answer is Cincinnati, Ohio.
Yesterday, I took five clarinets, including the SEVR "A" clarinet, to Ning Pen, a regional master repair technician located near Indianapolis, Indiana. He assessed the SEVR "A" clarinet and suggested that I contact Tomoji Hirakata at Yamaha in NYC and send it to him for assessment and any needed correction(s). So, this is my plan at this time. I will post another update following the eventual outcome/results.
Thanks again to everyone who contributed information. It was all enlightening and appreciated.
Hy-Dex
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