 The Oboe BBoard
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Author: Astrobleme
Date: 2006-10-01 10:04
Hi all,
after fooling around with a couple of other instruments, at the age of 38 I decided it was time to have a go at the oboe, so here I am.
Due to a fairly limited budget I got myself a second-hand plastic Selmer (yes, I know, so please don't ;-)). Since I couldn't get it all I decided I wanted more keys before anything else. (Actually, I got a wooden Hans Kreul first, but it didn't have the left f, nor the f fork resonance, so I sold it and got the Selmer instead.) But the thing is, I now have more keys than I can handle.
It says Signet soloist on it, but when comparing it to pictures on the Internet it looks like a model 104B. If anyone could enlighten me on the differences between those numbered seriers and the signet soloist oboes I'd be greatful.
But now to the keys. I assume that the right hand side key above the right G# key is the G#-A trill key, also used in connection with Ab-Bb trills from what I've read. But I really can't seem to understand the true purpose of this key. For G#-A trills work fine with either of the two G# keys. But there may be something that's not right with my oboe, a spring or something, for when looking at the trill chart at
http://www.wfg.woodwind.org/oboe/ob_tr2_1.html
the third trill for Ab-Bb is not possible. Nothing happens when I try to do what it says. So if that fingering is correct, my oboe is not ok.
I'd be happy if anyone could explain how that key is supposed to work.
Another thing I don't understand is the purpose of the double-ring D#-E key, so I'd be equally happy for an explanation on that.
And finally, in the descriptions of the 104B and 101 models it says that there is a double-ring B-C# trill as well. Where is that located? I can't see any in the pictures. Or is it the same double-ring as D#-E used in some special way?
Besides these problems, progress does not seem completely out of the question: occasionally I manage to play in tune, and on exceptionally good days I even produce a fairly nice tone. ;-)
Thanks.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-01 12:05
The top joint G#-A trill is done like this - hold down the upper of the two side keys (the overlapping one) and only trill with LH finger 3. The side key holds down the 3rd fingerplate to bring the A down to pitch as it will be too sharp with the G# key open.
The Ab-Bb trill is made by fingering G# and trilling only with LH finger 2 (middle finger) only. There should be a connection from the G# key to the middle fingerplate (a thin lever that runs from the trill keys to a lug soldered onto the mid fingerplate) so when the G# key is pressed, it closes the middle fingerplate at the same time.
The D#-E trill is done by holding down the LH Eb key, and trill with RH finger 3 only. The inside bush is lowered by the connection from the LH Eb key to flatten the E while the Eb key remains open to make the trill in tune, otherwise the E will be too sharp with the Eb key open.
The B-C# trill is the low B-C# - so play low C# and trill with the low B key - the C# key automatically closes with the low B key.
Compare your oboe to the one in the photo to see what your one has, or doesn't have.
http://howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowarthXLObBWCon.jpg&pid=35118
http://howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/Marigaux901Ob.jpg&pid=35218
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2006-10-01 12:43)
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Author: Astrobleme
Date: 2006-10-01 13:52
Thanks a lot! It all makes perfect sense, and most of it works too.
However, the B-C# trill does not work, since C# on my oboe doesn't close correctly. The adjustment screw is apparently down as far as it gets, so I guess there should be a little cork under it. Is that right?
I also discovered that I have the exact same problem with the Db-Eb trill. Holding down the LH Eb and trilling with Db should, as far as I've understood, automatically close the Eb. Cork?
Thanks for the links too. It all seems to be there except the third octave key, the low Bb vent, the extra adjustment screw on the C key and whatever it is that makes the C# key look split (articulated C# mechanism?)
Thanks again.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-01 14:30
The main thing with oboes is that they're loaded up with adjustment screws - this can ether be a good thing (ease of regulation) or a disaster if they're adjusted wrongly so things stop working.
I think the adjusting screws on Selmer USA oboes are nylon tipped so they don't need cork on the linkages under them, but if they're out of adjustment I'd recommend you take it to an oboe specialist to do a checkover or service on, as there are some things that need setting up precisely that most general woodwind repairers might not know about.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Astrobleme
Date: 2006-10-01 15:12
You're right, there are no cork under any of the others. So I guess I'd better have someone take a look at it. Unfortunately there's no one in this area, so I'll have to manage without those trills until I can afford both the trip/postage and the checkover.
Thanks again.
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Author: vboboe
Date: 2006-10-01 21:20
Hey, welcome to the board! What's really GREAT is that you've decided to take up oboe in your ... ahem ... late youth :-)
I'm only young when i put a decimal point in front of my legal age, my olde and occasionally arthritic fingers are specialists in andante now (first year sub-largo, second year adagio, hey, for me that's progress ;-)
What is going on with this oboe revival phenom these last few years?
Echo of Oboe's golden age? Let's see, that would be roughly about 1650 to 1775 so that mean we're in Oboe's tri-centenary century now, Ye Grand Master Oboe in the Airwaves seems to be having a big party and recruiting more players to celebrate ... i think it's wunnerful, play on :-)
Don't fault yourself on your starting instrument choice, i had a marvellous listening experience at a band festival last spring where a young fella on a basic (no low B-flat) plastic Selmer sounded really good, nice tone, lovely vibrato, expressive playing ... it's not the oboe or the reed, it's the player who can play the best of both
Sorry to read you're having trouble getting started on an carefully selected beginner instrument not adjusted correctly, makes things a bit harder, do yourself a favor and make it a priority to getting that fixed ASAP ... at the moment, your newbie embouchure isn't able to play very long, so you won't miss your new instrument as keenly as you would as when you're getting ahead and able to play more of your favorites tunes
<<But I really can't seem to understand the true purpose of this key>>
... that right hand G#/Ab key sure is a boon as an alternate sequence when playing conservatory fingering in keys with 3 sharps or 4 flats & more, the nicest thing about using the right G# or Ab is you can easily rock up cleanly from F# or Gb, whereas ascending to left G# / Ab is more of a challenge to clean up a blip of G sneaking in there if Left fingers 3 & 4 aren't fully in synch -- which intermediate 2-3 year beginners like me still find they aren't :-{
... until then right Aflat just sits there waiting to be wanted as a trill key, at the present time i can actually trill it better than the uneven left finger side (such as in 8 bars trilling for Ukrainian Bell Carol) -- or, can also use it in a fast run sequence such as G-flat right-side Ab to forked Bb, B to Db, etc, and descending back to G-flat
... what music are you starting on and want do you want to move on to?
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-10-02 15:39
What's the easiest way to do a Bb-B trill on the upper register??? Thanks.
By the way, my new oboe teacher just got a new Howarth cocobola wood oboe. It's very beautiful and has a lovely sound. His other oboe is a Loree.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-02 16:06
For the Bb-B (or A#-B) trill (in both registers), play Bb as normal, but with LH finger 1 hold down both the top fingerplate and the small spatula attached to the key just below it to stop it opening (and giving you a C instead!), and trill with LH finger 2. You'll probably have to reach across with your left index finger to hold this key down as well as the top fingerplate.
So it's x,xo|xoo for Bb, and x,oo|xoo for B.
This trill is a doddle on flute, clarinet and sax - but a pain on the oboe.
And holding this small key closed with the top fingerplate also stops the C key opening when playing in sharp keys, and intervals across the break involving B (eg. C#-B, D-B, D#-B, E-B, etc.) as it keeps the key closed so stopping the accidental 'blip' of the note C when RH finger 1 is closed.
Here's a pic of a cocobolo XL that should be like your teacher's:
http://howarth.uk.com/pic.aspx?pic=./wo/HowarthXLCocoOboe.jpg&pid=566744
If you look just to the left of the extension plate on the top fingerplate you can see the small spatula key - that's the one you need to hold down for the trill.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Astrobleme
Date: 2006-10-02 16:08
Thanks for the welcome, vboboe. This seems like a nice place for youngsters of all ages.
My visual impression that the adjustment screws were at the bottom turned out to be incorrect, and I felt brave yesterday and fiddled around a little with them, so now those trills seem to be working as well. If I managed to mess up something else along the way – well, that'll be a learning experience too. :-) But those screws seem fairly isolated with no hidden traps ...
As for music, I got a bundle of different (introductory) books, and first I started on a few of them without really having any plan. But after a while I decided I'd better spend some time just focusing on being able to produce reasonably decent tones in tune without pretending what I'm doing has anything to do with music, and that's where I still am. But I think it's time to get back to either the Gekeler or the Edlefsen/Weber book (Oboe Student) and also work with the 80 graded studies books for a while. Any suggestions?
The main reason I took up the oboe is that I am (or was) a hobby composer and want to have at least a little first-hand experience with the instruments. But I haven't even attempted writing anything for quite some time because the instruments are fascinating enough in themselves. So I guess I'm mainly a collector of cheap second-hand instruments. :-) But since the oboe is one of my favorites, the wish to learn how to play it has grown gradually stronger.
So we'll see what happens. I hope I'll manage to stick to it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-02 16:36
If I hadn't heard the Richard Strauss oboe concerto played by Heinz Holliger which was on a CD of Strauss wind ensemble pieces, I'd have probably never taken it up again.
And that was around 10 years back, and certainly contributed to rekindling my interest with the oboe and especially cor anglais (which was the real reason for me taking up oboe) - and also getting plenty of orchestral work on oboe and cor anglais, and my career as an oboe finisher for the last 8 years (it was the 19th October 1998 when I started working for Howarth)!
So it's amazing where influence can lead. I haven't looked back since.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: oboeblank
Date: 2006-10-02 17:29
There is an easier way to do that trill. Play B flat normally, and depress the Ab key and trill with your left hand second finger- that is if you have the lever that connects to the A key.
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Author: Astrobleme
Date: 2006-10-02 19:14
Although it doesn't really matter anymore, I just realized that I still don't understand what's meant by the "double ring B-C# trill" mentioned on the Selmer site and elsewhere, i.e. in what way is a double ring involved in the B-C# trill?
How I wish I didn't care and spent my time trilling instead! ;-)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2006-10-02 23:13
I can't think what the "double ring B-C# trill" is either - I reckon they've mislabelled something.
The only double ring trill mechanism is the D#-E trill for RH finger 3.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: lucyw
Date: 2006-10-03 17:34
Thanks Chris. Yes, this looks just like Mr. Robinson's oboe. Beautiful!
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2006-10-06 08:36
-- "So I guess I'm mainly a collector of cheap second-hand instruments." --
Join the club!
Steve
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