 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Intonation
Date: 2020-05-09 02:58
Adjustable barrel users, what have you been using?
I am researching potential barrels to try and am curious of your experiences.
I am specifically looking for information on Polaris and Chadash. Basically any alternatives to P&S Zoom as those seem to be getting harder to find.
I am aware that picking a barrel is a personal choice but would still like to take player experiences into account.
I've also searched the bboard for this subject and would just like to hear more up to date experiences.
Thank you in advance for your input
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Author: Robert N.
Date: 2020-05-09 04:35
Brad Behn recently came out with an adjustable barrel, I have not tried it though. I do have one of his regular (non-adjustable) barrels and I like that a lot.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-05-09 05:20
I like Guy Chadash's adjustable barrels for the most part. The only thing I dislike with his adjustable barrels in general is they don't fit in the clarinet cases, the barrel slots. Too wide.
Not cheap. Expect to spend $350 or more, depends of his mood. The more he talks the less the cost, if you ask him nicely!
I prefer Guy's barrels which are lined with a hard rubber, this helps keep tuning and the sound more stable.
I'm also OK with his non adjustable barrels. They tune pretty well. He offers them with regular tapers and reverse tapers. Both work very well, depends of the mouthpiece bore you use and the horns of course.
There is a new guy I found recently, due to a referral from a friend name Kim is S. Korea. Kim - A very good player. Players in South Korea are underrated and often very great players. I have been working with barrel designs recently called Palopoli located in Brazil, they are kind of closed at the moment due to the Virus, but Flavia, the owner, will contact you via email if you want to try his. A VERY nice man. We are playing around with some new designs and he's close to sending the final product. Yes these are lined in a hard rubber too. The workmanship is incredible. Check them out below. He makes bells as well.
https://www.palopolicustom.com
Sorry I cannot offer opinions on other makes and models from other companies.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-05-10 10:24
Polaris has a constructive flaw: a free motion of the wheel in the beginning of turn in either direction. You can’t use it precisely in pro environment. The sound however is very good, with added dense and fast dynamics. Sounds better than stock Buffet barrel, difference is clearly heard by the listener.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-05-10 13:01
>> Polaris has a constructive flaw: a free motion of the wheel in the beginning of turn in either direction. <<
Don't expect no backlash from something like that... or from just about anything really. I guess it depends how much. Who knows how much reducing the backlash would add to their cost.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-05-10 16:38
Hi igalkov
What do the terms "with added dense and fast dynamics" mean? Can you discuss this a bit more. Thanks!
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2020-05-10 17:41
I'm going to be the curmudgeon of the day, I think.
Is there a reason why under normal (or even slightly unique) playing conditions, you'd need a 4mm range of adjustment (64 - 68 for the Polaris) in your barrel? I'm having trouble understanding where an adjustable barrel is more useful than simply having two normal barrels, (1) the original barrel or an after-market one that tunes the same way and (2) one that's a mm shorter (or maybe 2mm) for gigs in bands that tune sharp. My 10Gs came with 66mm (for the Bb) and 65mm (for the A) barrels and I can't imagine why I would ever need 68mm on either. Even 67mm is longer than I need for either horn. So I carry an additional 65mm for my Bb and a 64mm for my A.
Also, I'm not sure what advantage an adjustable barrel that is tuned in discreet increments (.25 mm for the Polaris) offers over a standard barrel that is infinitely adjustable (by pulling out). Or are those increments just guide markings? Can you set the length between the markings?
I'm not criticizing any of you who use adjustable barrels. I'm just wondering what I'm missing.
Karl
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-05-10 18:42
>> What do the terms "with added dense and fast dynamics" mean? Can you discuss this a bit more. Thanks! <<
Hi Bob,
It gives more body to the sound while keeping tonal range full, not cutting off highs. Sure it’s more resistant than stock but not as much as Backuns, somewhere half-way. As for “fast dynamics”, it makes pads clamp like you’re playing a brand new clarinet. On/off feeling of pad down/pad up, something like this. Sounds not very good thing when I say it, but really much better when you hear it yourself. Clear transitions between notes. I would even buy one for it’s sound if it would be a non-adjustable, ha ha I hate adjustable barrels.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2020-05-10 22:52
I would not necessarily blame the barrel. I know players that can adjust or adapt and manage to play in tune in all kinds of circumstances. At the same time I have played with people who can adjust endlessly and never seem play in tune.
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Author: Bob Bernardo
Date: 2020-05-11 03:22
Beats me Karl. I totally agree! I have a few barrels, but actually use just one on both horns. Yep tuning is just fine, no dead notes, the sound is very pleasing. Each note speaks well and is in tune. I did say I like Guy's adjustable barrels but I don't own one!
We have to be able as players to adjust the pitch on a fly when playing and the need to tune fast. Lets get this right! Flutes and oboes tend to climb in pitch as they play higher. Same with French horns and occasional trumpet players as well can climb. Even fellow clarinetists bit as they play high to hit the pitch, but sadly play these upper notes flat. A barrel and instrument adjustments surely helps.
I'm on Yamaha's but during my Buffet days of 37 years I gravitated to just one barrel as well, same barrel on the A and Bb clarinets. There was NEVER a comment from a fellow player or the conductors throughout all of the years who said a word about a pitch problem. Also recordings verify this. I feel your embouchure needs to be flexible to a point to play in tune and produce a very beautiful clarinet sound. Of course your ears are key. If your sound or the horn is playing out of tune well fix it or dump it. Only a few Buffets are actually made right, because when the bores are measured a judgement call is made. Very few horns actually have perfect bores.
However, the barrels for the Yamaha and Buffet horns had work done to them. They were not stock. All of the horns needed minor tuning adjustments which I did, sometimes just opening and closing a key pad like the throat notes. Just once did I need to replace the bell.
A lot of mouthpieces cause tuning issues. The bore needs to be tapered carefully and I'm open saying that the Rico mouthpiece bore is too small, tight. One of the best bores is the inexpensive Selmer Concept. It pretty much has the same bore as the old Chedeville's and Kaspar's. The M series Vandoren's have a nice bore but the mouthpiece is way too long in length. Vandoren made these long to tune to 440, but they messed up. So your Buffet horns won't tune in the high registers. Other models of Vandoren's are a bit better, but they have horrible facing and tip issues. I'm sure a lot of players disagree, so I'll say this for you to think about. How many Vandoren mouthpieces do you test before buying, then how many do you have to play through to find 2 that play somewhat the same? 10, 20, none? Yes a great barrel helps all mouthpieces play better.
Sometimes maybe it's best to stay with one setup and not mess around too much, rely on your talents.
I've said this before and got a lot of wrath. It bugs me that R13's tune to 440 and under. Same with most of the Vandoren models. They tune to 440 and under. So players buy 63mm barrels to play better in tune. But in most of Europe and top USA symphonies these groups tune to 441 and 442. Now Vandoren makes a couple of mouthpieces that tune to 442, but some of the notes on the horns are dead, undercutting and re-tuning your horn is often needed.
Designer of - Vintage 1940 Cicero Mouthpieces and the La Vecchia mouthpieces
Yamaha Artist 2015
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2020-05-11 11:02
>> Is there a reason why under normal (or even slightly unique) playing conditions, you'd need a 4mm range of adjustment (64 - 68 for the Polaris) in your barrel? <<
One reason is that many don't play only in "normal or slightly unique" conditions
Some people play both outside when it's a little (or more than a little) cold, but also inside in the summer in a very humid area with not much air conditioning, etc.
I don't consider that I play in particularly unique conditions, but I've had to use my shorter barrel closed all the way to barely be in tune, while other times I had to use the longer barrel opened by an almost ridiculous amount.
Another reason might be that someone needs a shorter or longer barrel than usual and it's not necessarily easy to find one in that length. For example someone just asked me to shorten their Bb and A barrels to 63.5mm. The adjustable barrel was great in that it helped them know what length they needed (they later found they prefer their other barrels though...).
Also someone just might like the way a specific adjustable barrel plays more than any other barrel, being adjustable being a nice side effect.
>> as I stated earlier, there’s a flaw that prevents it to be set to a desired position easily, so on every change he now plays off-tune and rolls the damn ring for eternity... <<
Maybe you can clarify, but assuming you mean the backlash prevents him from getting it to a specific position based on some markings on the ring and barrels, you can tell them they can easily solve this by always reaching the position from the same direction. This is how machinists use manual machines (like lathes and mills) unless they have a DRO.
I don't know anything about their manufacturing to say whether there is too much backlash for the price, but I guess it's a question whether it can be made with so little backlash that the difference in actual position would be negligible to affect a marked position.
Or they can isntall a DRO on their barrel ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
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Author: igalkov
Date: 2020-05-11 12:21
>> I don't know anything about their manufacturing to say whether there is too much backlash for the price <<
I see, I didn’t define the amount of this flaw. Well, this «backlash» is a quarter- to half-turn of the ring, I don’t remember exactly. It’s HUGE, or we would not call it a problem at all. But it is.
Genuine P&S Zoom is precise.
Post Edited (2020-09-02 07:19)
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Author: donald
Date: 2020-05-11 16:49
Of course, my initial reaction to the OP was - "aren't ALL barrels adjustable?" because they ARE, you can pull them in and or out...
However- that leaves a gap in the bore, and that was the main motivation for creating the P+S Zoom barrel- the length can be adjusted WITHOUT creating an enlargement of the bore.
And if I can add to the point Nitai makes, when I was doing lots of gigging (for most of the first 15 years of this century) I found myself using barrels from 64mm to 67mm on my B flat clarinet at different times of year and in different conditions. Many years past I recall a performance in Honolulu where our clarinets were wobbly because we had all the joints pulled a mile out to play in tune, and I recall an opera pit in a shady town called Greymouth, where we stole the duvet from the hotel room to keep warm, and I couldn't keep up to pitch on a 64mm on my A clarinet.
A Zoom barrel (something I don't currently own) would have been quite useful over the years.
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Author: Mojo
Date: 2020-05-11 17:57
I tried an RS Berkeley. I felt the response was not as good with it. Like it has a tiny leak. I’m instead using a short Fobes plastic barrel with a stack of tuning rings for adjustments.
MojoMP.com
Mojo Mouthpiece Work LLC
MojoMouthpieceWork@yahoo.com
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Author: Intonation
Date: 2020-05-12 03:49
Thank you all for your input.
My primary reason for being interested in these types of barrels is as donald said.
I do feel a difference in the feel of the instrument when having to adjust by pulling out. I also have been in environments where it is cold enough that I need to lip up uncomfortably to keep in tune.
As much as I want to have a collection of barrels for each occasion, having a single barrel that eliminates the need for buying multiple barrels is far more practical/economic for me. I can have one barrel that can achieve any length I might need. I would also not have to deal with the subtle differences between barrels. Lastly and most importantly there is the chance that the barrel maybe plays better than any other barrels I've tried before.Seeing professionals have such success on the Zoom barrels has definitely peaked my curiosity towards adjustable barrels.
I think the primary issue players are having with adjustable barrels is that they are a newer technology and thus are not as developed as traditional barrels. I can identify with this having borrowed an old click barrel. While it was practical, I was not satisfied with the tone. However back then there were a lot less options and technology is progressing. Chadash has definitely caught my eye as he has quite the rep, as well as his model is supposed to keep the mouthpiece at playing position. A very nice feature as I could see having an adjustable barrel without that could get annoying very quick.
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-04-04 22:58
I thought I would resurrect this thread, instead of starting a new one. Are there any newer (since 2020) adjustable barrels that people recommend? I am looking for one that is not wood, because I need to use it in conditions that risk cracking a wooden one (would be used partly on a plastic instrument in challenging climatic conditions). The Royal Polaris adjustable barrel is partly a synthetic material, but part of it is still wood, which concerns me, though I believe it is the lower part of a wood barrel that is most likely to crack. The Behn adjustable barrel is too costly for me, though that would seem to be ideal.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-04-05 01:22
I believe the Behn is the only really good, fully synthetic adjustable barrel at the moment.
I wanted to add an advantage that was NOT covered above. If you remove the mouthpiece from the clarinet by the barrel (rather than just the mouthpiece) due to a ligature that may not hold firmly, the "adjustable barrel" is ideal. You dial in the tuning and you just pull off the barrel to clean; and pop the barrel back on. There is no ambiguity as to where you left off tuning wise. I know all us older folks are used to "fiddling" with how far the barrel is pulled out (and you should ALWAYS have room in both directions!) but these days we don't have to fiddle any more.
Just my experience using the Royal Globus......... a good adjustable barrel at a reasonable price.
..............Paul Aviles
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Author: David Eichler
Date: 2024-04-05 03:41
Did you try all the versions of the Royal Global adjustable barrel? If so, does one seem to have a bit more projection than the others? I realize it is only a different ring, so any differences are likely to be small. However, the Behn with the silver ring does seem to be a bit brighter and louder than the rubber ring version, as best I can tell over the Internet.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2024-04-05 14:56
I only ordered and tried one Globus, the dark ringed version (most pricey).
Oh, another point worth noting at least for the Globus. They may say a certain amount of rotation yields a certain distance, but the mechanism is "infinite." You turn and stop where you want. The length of the barrel adjusts to whatever that length turns out to be where you stop. Not sure if that is the way the Behn works, but I can't imagine the mechanism is any more sophisticated than nut and bolt.
As for sound, it is like any other single factor (mouthpiece, reed, ligature), the result varies within the combination of elements and can be better or worse depending on how those elements interact. There are no "silver bullets." Suffice to say it is a good barrel.
..............Paul Aviles
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